posted by ironman25
James Yoder and William Miller who were members of the Old Order Amish religion and respondent Adin Yutzy is member of the Conservative Amish Mennonite Church. They and their families line in Green County, Wisconsin. Wisconsin’s compulsory school attendance law requires they send their children to school until the age of sixteen. The respondents refuse to send their children to school beyond the eighth grade. The school district filled on the families for not enrolling their children in school. The families were charged, tried, and convicted for violating compulsory school attendance and received a fine of five dollars each, the families refuted the charges saying their first and fourteenth
Amendment rights were violated.
The history of the Amish was given and how their lifestyle has been constant dating back to the sixteenth century. Stating that their lifestyle requires a life in a church community which is separate and apart from the world and worldly influence. The Amish also believe that a formal high school education beyond the eighth grade is contrary to their beliefs. However, they do believe in a basic elementary education through the eighth grade, but beyond that the Amish feel that an agrarian education in their religious community is the best education for their children. They believe that this type of education is most beneficial for their children, which is apart from the pressure of competition and pressures to conform to worldly attitudes which contradict Amish beliefs.
The decision of the court was in favor of Yoder due to they were able to prove their lifestyle has been a constant throughout history. Their religious beliefs and their mode of lifestyle are inseparable and interdependent. The state also shows the Amish community has been a successful social unit within our society even if apart from the conventional mainstream. The court further explains that a brief additional period of education is necessary for the Amish to participate in the democratic process, but their alternative form of education has enabled them to function effectively in our society.
The decision of the court I believe is just based on the fact that the decision was based on vast history of the Amish religion and their religious views about the education of their children, proving that they can be a functional unit of society with only attending public schools through the eighth grade and further educating their children in their religious based school for the secondary education of their children. The court parallels their lifestyle and religious beliefs for educating their children as a church based school.
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13 comments:
kay82:
I am not sure whether I can disagree or agree with the findings of the blogger. He/She did not explicitly say whether they agreed or disagreed with the findings of the court. I do agree with the analysis that the blogger did on the case. The person laid everything out simply.
I agree with the findings of the court. Based on the fact that the Amish do have a historical religious background, the Amish should be able to provide their children with their own secondary education. Considering the work that the Amish contribute to the American society, secondary education for them is more like trade school. Their children are being prepared, based on their religion, for trade or skill they are going to contribute the culture.
I think that I could apply this court decision to my work by taking every student differently. I need to look at each student at their own circumstances. Administrators also have to put on an objective hat. They can not base their decisions on their own religious or policital views. I am going to need to be very unbiased.
The opinion of the blogger is not clear to me so I cannot say whether I agree or disagree with him/her. I do agree with the breakdown of the case done by the blogger.
I agree with the findings of the court. The lifestyle and religious beliefs of the Amish are so vastly different from those in the secular world. The constancies of their religion and isolation of the Amish community allows their religious beliefs to take precedence over a public school education through age sixteen.
I believe this case has very little relevance to me because of where I live. In my area, there is no religious group with a similar history and isolation. This case might be more meaningful to me if I lived in a different part of the United States.
Hunt74
I would like to say I agree with the blogger, but I am uncertain to the exact postition the blogger takes. In this case, I agree with the court. The Amish do have a right to educate their children past the 8th grade among their own community based on their cultural history and foundations. Since this case was brought before the court in 1972, the concept of homeschooling did not apply. The court really could not make a different decision based on the facts that were presented to them.
For application purposes, it is important to not only acknowledge the belief systems of others, but also acknowlege the value of the divisity that a group can bring to a school envirnonment. This also is in alignment with the principal standards of communications and community relations.
I am a little confused if the blogger agreed or disagreed with the case, I don't think ironman actually says either way, my inference is that he agrees with the outcome. Since the Amish heritage has been the same for several generations it is their way of life and their religion I will have to agree with the courts decision in this case. I think the Amish way of life stresses to work with a trade and this is how the are being prepared for society.I guess one way it may apply at school is that kids are homeschooled and some because of religion.
SHOOTER
Belle:
The position that ironman takes involving this case seems hazy to me. However, I feel as if his understanding of the facts is clear and consistent with the understanding I established from the reading.
I believe that the decision the court made was the right one. Based on the facts of the deep rooted Amish religion and the proof that they are a well functioning society, it would have proven detrimental to their way of life if students were forced to attend school past the 8th grade.
As an educator it would be wise to keep this case in mind when dealing with diverse populations and teaching multicultural awareness to not only students but also all faculty members and the community.
APA1906:
The facts of case seem to be accurate as posted by the blogger. However, their position on the decision seems to be unclear to me.
I would argue that it is well known that the Amish are an explicitly secluded society and they should be allowed to educate their children they way they see fit to enhance their way of life. I don't believe that it is much different from home-schooling your child.
The only relevance that I see to my school would be if a parent had an indiffering opinion of curriculum that was being presented because of religion or personal moral beliefs.
sucram54:
I thought the blog accurately summarized the court case. Like previous post, I too was a little unclear to what direction the post took. As far as my own personal position on the case, I do agree with the court in their decision.
The history of the Amish people dates back to the early periods of our country. The later teenage years is when the Amish truly establish their children in their way of life. To subject them to the high school competive-worldy environment could disrupt their core beliefs for a vulnerable teenager.
My only concern is where does this case leave us. Once this precedence is set, what other religions could use this to excuse themselves from secondary education?
I believe the blogger is agreeing with the court decision because I see nothing noted to the contrary as I read the post. Personally, I agree with the court’s decision because Amish families live in their own communities that center around religion and the “old ways” of the 16th century. They have always maintained their separation from things “worldly” and have no intention of their children leaving the community and assimilating into mainstream America.
After the 8th grade, Amish children assume a full time working role on their family farms preparing to have a farm and family of their own. For this reason I believe the court felt there was no need to force them to attend school based on how their lifestyle has remained unchanged for centuries and has not been a detriment to mainstream society.
This case can be applied on my campus by being consciously aware of the diversity that exists in our student population. Because of this diversity one cannot assume that a culture will conform to our rules simply because we want them to. We need to be aware of cultural norms of a student prior to trying to enforce a law they may be in opposition of.
I don't care about the position of the Blogger. Hell i don't even know what a blogger is. But I do know this, "Legal decisions make for points of law"
Now that the point of law has been established I feel I do not need to send my children to school after the 8th grade. That violates my customs which are far older that than the Amish. My religion and my culture dictate this should be the policy as well!!!!
Submitted respectfully on behalf of:
American Indians
Hebrews
Jews
Irish Catholic
Hispanic
Cubans
South Africa Republics and territories
( An a host of others too long to list)
I do agree with the rest of you in that this was the right decision for the right reasons for the right student. However, that should have been done at the local level. Once a point of law is set, anyone can now argue that point and you can not allow it for one student and not another on a state level. That kind of flexibility needs to stay at the local level and keep lawyers out of the mix.
By the way....there are alot more indians in wisconsin than Amish.
by: kido5150
I had a hard time trying to figure out if the original blogger agreed or disagreed with the decision that the court made. The case was fully discussed and it seems that all parties have understood the case.
I do agree with the courts ruling. I also agree with what KAY82 says about the Amish teaching their children an education that is similar to trade school. Historically (hundreds of years ago), children learned what their parents and families did for a living and they typically carried it on (i.e. carpenters sons grew up to be carpenters, blacksmiths sons grew up to become blacksmiths, etc.) The only difference is the time period. However, if you are looking at the Amish (their culture & religous points of view... they are living the same now as they have throughout their history). The historians provided such information when they were called to speak at the trial. This is why the case was dismissed and they were allowed to continue with their preferred way of living - without worldly influences.
As for myself as an educator and future administrator, I think that I need to look at the personal values and beliefs that my students and students in my school have and be sensitive to them. I need to seek to understand them and respect them.
posted by doglover
I don't agree with ironman25. I believe that the decision of the court is based off the true violation of the First and Fourteenth Amendment rights. The Amish have strong religious beliefs that secondary educational system begins to interfere with their religious beliefs.
I agree with the ruling of the courts. The first and fourteenth amendments were blatantly violated, especially since Amish continued to educate thier children after they left the public school system. Isn't that a form of home-schooling??
The ruling would still hold up in today's court system, as it still violates our 1st and 14th amendment rights.
In our particular area, we don't tend to deal with this situation as much. However, we as adminstrators may deal with parent s pulling children out for religious holidays for extended times.
I believe that the Supreme Court's decision in favor of Yoder is right. I agree with the courts decision. The Amish communities Fourteenth Amendment was violated. A person's religious rights should be honored as long as it does not physical harm anyone. Enven though this case went before the Supreme Court in 1972, this case would still be found with the same result, in favor of the Yoder.
I agree with the blogger that the case was just on historial Amish heiriage. I would assume that the blogger does agree with the case because he/she doesn't give any indication that they are extremely against the courts ruling. Therefore, I agree with the blogger.
The community in which I live used to have Amish people in it. I believe that schools in our area took into consideration the aspect of the Amish culture and their beliefs.
the last comment was from guilo10
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